International“The Georgian government must return Armenian churches”
An interview with Bishop Vazgen Mirzakhanian, Primate
Norashen and five other Armenian churches in danger of appropriation
Published: Saturday December 20, 2008
Bishop Vazgen Mirzakhanian, Primate of Georgia. Tatul Hakobyan for the Armenian Reporter
Tbilisi - Armenian Reporter: Your Grace, the prime minister of Armenia recently visited Tbilisi, and for the first time in a dozen years, prayers were said and candles were lit in Holy Norashen thanks to you and local clergy members. Which phase is the issue of the "disputed" churches in today?
Bishop Vazgen Mirzakhanian: Those churches are not considered disputed by Armenians; those are historically Armenian churches. "Disputed" is an artificial designation given by the Georgian Church after the fall of the Soviet Union to Christian temples of all other denominations so that they can appropriate them.
For this reason we do not consider it a debatable issue; we call it the issue of historical churches that were taken from the Georgian-Armenian Diocese during the Soviet era and used for different purposes. Five of these churches are in Tbilisi, one of them in Samtskhe-Javakheti; they are not functioning and are in a worrisome state. Two of them are in ruins and need to be renovated, reinforced, and preserved. The six churches are: the Church of the Holy Norashen Assumption of the Holy Mother of God, the Church of Saint Gevorg Mughnetsi, the Church of Holy Nshan Nikoghayos, the Church of the Holy Mother of God in Shamkhoretsi, the Church of Saint Minas, and the Church of Saint Nshan in Akhaltskha.
AR: On what level is the dispute now? It's true that the issue of the churches is even being discussed by the presidents and prime ministers of the two countries; however, when you pass by Holy Norashen and compare the site to how it looked the last time you were there, you realize that the process of appropriation continues and is nearing its conclusion.
VM: I do not agree that the appropriating process is nearing the end.
We can say that all the events that took place in May of this year brought the resolution of the issue nearer. I must say that during the past 20 years this issue was constantly talked about, but after my appointment as Primate of the diocese, they became more frequent, since as a result of our work, more people now attend church. It is not just because of me, but because of all our clergymen, community figures, the youth, the Armenian theater, and the Armenian Embassy. We saw that the functioning two Armenian churches, Saint Gevorg and Holy Etchmiadzin [in Tbilisi] were insufficient and so, naturally, we realized that the issue of the return of our historic churches must be more crucial and pivotal.
We conducted negotiations on the local and diocesan levels and the presidents of the two countries and the spiritual heads, the Armenian Supreme Patriarch and the Georgian Patriarch, have also discussed the issue. Today the issue is on this level: there is an atmosphere that has been created and artificially intensified by the Georgians that says: "You see, public opinion does not allow the resolution of the issue in favor of the Armenians," but today, more than ever, Armenians are more resolute. I believe that the process is reaching its resolution, but at what phase, it is hard to say.
To date the Georgians have not published a serious article or presented serious arguments about the Georgian origin of the churches. They constantly put forward an illogical version, according to which the foundations of all the churches we demand are Georgian; as if Armenians had nothing better to do than to wait for a Georgian church to collapse so that they could go and construct a new church on its foundations. They also say that the churches were sold and the Armenians bought them. Even if they were constructed on the basis, or bought, this means that they belong to that owner.
Even the Georgian Patriarchate cannot deny that those churches are Armenian. The biggest proof is the church itself. For example if we take Norashen; its internal and external inscriptions and its entire architectural structure is Armenian and it is useless for anyone to try to claim them as Georgian. There is only one thing Georgian there: the soil and nothing more. A country which has 300,000 Armenians must respect the beliefs of those 300,000 Armenians and return their churches to them.
They suggest the following to us: form a Georgian committee and a specialist from Armenia can participate by giving professional advice. The Armenian Apostolic Church is against this, as it considers forming a committee on an issue concerning historical facts unnecessary. We are ready to create a committee together with the Georgians and discuss the issue of the Armenian churches taken by Georgians in the 90s. In Tbilisi alone, there are seven such churches. It is understandable that this is not just a Georgian interchurch issue. These churches are under the supervision of the Georgian government and the issue must be solved the following way: the government must take the decision to return those churches.
The government must also resolve the second issue, which, besides Georgia, all its neighbors have solved: a law on religion and conscience, which, unfortunately, does not exist to date. All of the religious minorities, which are one-third of the country's total population, are not included in the law. There is no law on freedom of conscience in Georgia, not even the law of registering a religious community. Here you must register as an NGO. For this reason all traditional religious minorities are not included in the law.
AR: Isn't it worrying that the Georgians are renovating the territory surrounding Norashen? They have fenced the area and planted flowers. Today you can go near Norashen only by passing though the yard of a Georgian church. Isn't all that worrying? One day they will open the doors of the church and enter it.
BM: Nothing can be excluded in this world, but that will result in a very serious clash. If during the 90s they demolished those seven churches because those were bad times and the Armenians in Tbilisi faced survival issues and it was hard for them to struggle for historic monuments, then today this is not the case. Today the Armenians of Tbilisi are ready to fight for everything together with the clergy. If one day the Georgians try to open Norashen and use it as a Georgian church, the consequences will be very severe.
